It’s About Time for Nathan’s Famous: Relish What’s Next with Michael Kramkowski of IBT’s Bar + Food

🌭 Nathan’s Famous Comes to Fourth Avenue

• Michael Kramkowski is launching Tucson’s first Nathan’s Famous franchise at 628 N 4th Ave, bringing iconic New York hot dogs to the desert.

• The project includes The Blind Tiger, a modern speakeasy hidden behind Nathan’s with classic cocktails and shareable plates.

• Renovation delays due to historic district logistics are nearly behind them, with a soft opening expected in November 2025.

🏳️‍🌈 Celebrating 40 Years of LGBTQ+ Legacy at IBT’s Bar + Food

• IBT’s, originally opened in 1985, has been a vital hub for Tucson’s LGBTQ+ community for four decades.

• Michael, who purchased the bar in 2004, reflects on its role as a space for safety, self-expression, and celebration.

• A kitchen reopening and 40th anniversary celebration are planned this fall, with partnerships benefiting local LGBTQ+ nonprofits.

🏙️ Revitalizing Fourth Avenue, One Building at a Time

• Michael has acquired and renovated multiple properties near IBT’s to support intentional, community-focused growth.

• He is deeply committed to maintaining Fourth Avenue’s independent spirit, even while introducing national brands like Nathan’s Famous.

• Future plans include expanding IBT’s footprint with a new lounge area, restored patio, and ongoing historic preservation efforts.

Fourth Avenue in Tucson has always been a corridor of culture, community, and creativity — and one local entrepreneur continues to embody that spirit while boldly pushing it forward. In this episode of Life Along the Streetcar, we talk with Michael Kramkowski, longtime owner of IBT’s Bar + Food, about his exciting new projects: bringing Nathan’s Famous hot dogs to Tucson, launching a stylish speakeasy called The Blind Tiger, and celebrating 40 years of LGBTQ+ legacy at IBT’s.

Michael’s story is more than just a tale of business success — it’s a celebration of community resilience, a deep respect for Tucson’s history, and a commitment to keeping Fourth Avenue thriving. Whether you’re craving a hot dog, a handcrafted cocktail, or a space where everyone feels at home, Michael is cooking up something special.

Read on to discover how a national brand, a beloved LGBTQ+ nightclub, and a slice of urban revival are all coming together in the heart of Downtown Tucson.

🌭 Bringing Nathan’s Famous to Tucson: A National Name with Local Flavor

When the sign for Nathan’s Famous first appeared on Fourth Avenue, many locals thought it was a prank or placeholder, maybe even a pop-up Halloween store. But behind the scenes, Michael Kramkowski had been working tirelessly to bring the historic New York hot dog brand to Tucson in a way that made sense for the neighborhood.

Opening soon at 628 N Fourth Avenue, Nathan’s Famous will occupy the front of a historic building, bringing classic all-beef franks, crinkle-cut fries, and a touch of Coney Island charm to Southern Arizona. But this isn’t your average franchise drop-in. Michael, who owns the building and has carefully renovated the space, designed Nathan’s to enhance Fourth Avenue’s unique character, not replace it.

What makes this installation even more intriguing is what’s hiding in the back, The Blind Tiger, a speakeasy-style bar accessible only through a secret entrance behind Nathan’s. Featuring a cozy atmosphere, shareable bites, and a menu of elevated classic cocktails, The Blind Tiger promises to be a must-visit for cocktail enthusiasts and curious locals alike.

Together, Nathan’s Famous and The Blind Tiger signal a new chapter for Fourth Avenue, one that welcomes national names but stays grounded in local ownership, authenticity, and creativity.

🏳️‍🌈 Preserving and Evolving LGBTQ+ Culture Through IBT’s Bar + Food

While Nathan’s may be a new addition, IBT’s Bar + Food is a cornerstone of Tucson’s LGBTQ+ community. Originally opened in 1985, IBT’s has been a safe space for self-expression, celebration, and connection for nearly four decades. When Michael Kramkowski purchased the business in 2004 at age 29, he wasn’t just taking over a bar, he was becoming a steward of a cultural institution.

Michael speaks passionately about what IBT’s has meant to him personally. It was a place where he felt comfortable being himself long before he ever imagined owning it. His vision for the bar has always centered around inclusivity, fun, and safety, “throwing a party 365 days a year” while making sure everyone feels welcome and protected.

The bar has hosted everything from legendary drag shows to Pride after-parties and remains a hub for Tucson’s LGBTQ+ nightlife. But Michael isn’t resting on nostalgia. He’s embracing the future by updating the venue, expanding food options, and staying engaged with the community’s changing needs. In fact, IBT’s kitchen will be reopening this November after being closed due to construction, a major milestone as the bar prepares to celebrate its 40th anniversary.

Events tied to the anniversary will include special performances and partnerships with local nonprofits, reinforcing IBT’s commitment to celebration with purpose, bringing people together and giving back to the community.

🏙️ Revitalizing Fourth Avenue: Expanding with Purpose and Heart

Michael’s work goes beyond the walls of IBT’s. He’s become a key figure in the revitalization of Tucson’s historic Fourth Avenue, investing in properties and reimagining what this iconic strip can be for the next generation.

While much attention has recently shifted to Downtown Tucson, Fourth Avenue has seen challenges, including increased construction costs, rising rents, and shifting retail trends. Michael acknowledges these difficulties but remains optimistic. He sees his role as one of preservation through innovation, expanding the footprint of his businesses while respecting the area’s roots.

By purchasing and renovating historic buildings within the Fourth Avenue Historic District, Michael is navigating the complex balance between development and preservation. His future plans include expanding IBT’s with a new lounge area, a restored patio, and improved kitchen facilities all while keeping the original character intact.

Through thoughtful branding, creative design, and local-first ownership, Michael is showing that you don’t need to choose between old and new, you can build a bridge between them. His projects are helping ensure that Fourth Avenue remains vibrant, inclusive, and locally grounded, even as the city continues to grow.

🎉 Visit IBT’s and Relish Tucson’s Flavorful Future

Whether you’re a longtime Tucsonan or visiting Downtown for the first time, IBT’s Bar + Food is a must-see destination. From the moment you walk in, you’ll feel the energy of a space that’s hosted generations of joy, pride, and unforgettable nights. And with Nathan’s Famous and The Blind Tiger opening their doors soon, there’s even more to explore on your next trip to Fourth Avenue.

📍 IBT’s Bar + Food
616 N 4th Ave, Tucson, AZ 85705
🕒 Open daily — check their social media for events and hours
🌐 https://www.ibtstucson.com/

👉 While you’re in the neighborhood, follow the Life Along the Streetcar journey:
🎧 Stream more episodes: https://soundcloud.com/lifealongthestreetcar
📘 Join us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/LifeAlongTheStreetcar
🌐 Discover more stories: https://lifealongthestreetcar.org

💬 Have a favorite Fourth Avenue memory? Let us know! And don’t forget to support local, your next hot dog (or cocktail) could be part of Tucson history in the making.

Tom Heath
Welcome to Life Along the Street Car podcast, where we dive deeper into the hidden gems, inspiring people and creative culture shaping downtown Tucson and beyond. I’m your host, Tom Heath. This episode originally aired as a radio broadcast on Downtown Radio 99.1 FM here in Tucson. Today you’re going to get the full conversation, maybe a few extras for our podcast listeners.

Tom Heath
So settle in and enjoy the conversation. Today we’re joined by Mike Crum Koski of Eberts, the long time owner who since 2004 is not only sustain but expanded the brand of one of Tucson’s most enduring LGBTQ plus nightclub institutions. Eberts originally opened on Fourth Avenue in 1985, and now Mike’s bringing that same bold vision to new neighborhood expansions, including a highly anticipated Nathan’s concept.

Tom Heath
So I’m excited to to welcome Mike into the studio, and consider an old friend not because you’re old, but because we actually go way back.

Michael Kramkowski
Way back, way back.

Tom Heath
But we don’t want to talk about that. No one wants to hear about 1997. But welcome in. So we’re here to talk about Fourth Avenue and really kind of an evolution of your impact on there. So let’s kind of start at the beginning. Eberts.

Michael Kramkowski
Yes.

Tom Heath
That is, your place.

Michael Kramkowski
Correct? I bought that in 2004, 2004.

Tom Heath
So just a little bit ago. So just kind of getting you getting used to what’s going on there.

Michael Kramkowski
Brand new into it.

Tom Heath
But, and can you tell us a little bit about it? It’s got a special I mean, it’s got a it’s a very special place in Tucson. It’s been operating for. I mean, you bought it, so it’s been going on. You have an anniversary coming up, actually, don’t you?

Michael Kramkowski
Yes. So in November is the 40 year anniversary. It opened in November of 1985. Okay. The grand opening was November 16th, actually.

Tom Heath
Okay.

Michael Kramkowski
But.

Tom Heath
So some festivities planned.

Michael Kramkowski
Working on it, still trying to work out all the details. So it’s a lot to do.

Tom Heath
And then what what kind of led you to want to, to to get involved with it and buy it because, because you’ve owned it since 2004. So you’ve had it for a while, a long.

Michael Kramkowski
Time now, and you’re already.

Tom Heath
I use the word old, but you’re actually a young man. So, you were fairly young when you bought this.

Michael Kramkowski
I was fairly I was 29 when I bought it. So, Yes, I, I mean, how I got into it was, you know, I always wanted to own my own business. I thought it was gonna be more on the restaurant side. Okay. And, someone told me that they were looking at selling the bar in the next five years, and, I had a couple partners at the time, and we kind of came up with a plan and sat down with the owners and came to an agreement within a couple of months, and it moved fast, just taking it over.

Tom Heath
What what was it about? I mean, what was it about this particular spot? What was it?

Michael Kramkowski
Yeah. So, it was always special to me. It was a place that I went to when I was younger. I had been going there for years before I bought the bar. And so it was always a comfortable place, a place where you can feel at home, be yourself and, a fun place, you know, a place to go and meet people and and, dance and, you know, kind of just let you let yourself kind of relax for a while.

Tom Heath
Yeah. I remember early on and I went to Tucson in 93, and there’s, not too long after that, I was introduced to diabetes for, there’s a drag show, and, and I went down for that. And, you know, I this is really sort of my first experience with that, and I didn’t know what to expect. And I had all kinds of, like, preconceived notions of what I might see.

Tom Heath
And might be a part of. And it was just so dang fun. Like, everybody was just having a blast.

Michael Kramkowski
That’s the idea. I mean, what we try to do is we we make it to where we are trying to throw a party 365 days a year.

Tom Heath
Okay. Yeah.

Michael Kramkowski
So it is a lot of work, but there’s a lot of fun and we try to make it fun for our our guests that come in and our customers that come in and have, you know, a good time and relax and, you know, able to let off some steam and.

Tom Heath
The the pride parade that is that stuff like it, it was kind of connected like started or ended with you. Is that still thing.

Michael Kramkowski
Not anymore. I mean, the when the streetcar did open it, it pulled a lot of stuff off of Fourth Avenue that used to be there. So, you know, the pride parade used to go down Fourth Avenue. That kind of ended with the the start of the construction of.

Tom Heath
Okay.

Michael Kramkowski
Of that they did it. I think one time it’s just it’s just too expensive to close down the street. So, but so but it’s, you know, we’re still, we still try to be a part of pride as much as possible. We kind of do our our own party on pride after Tucson does their pride on both those nights and stuff like that.

Tom Heath
Stuff. And then this is what I remember about about you. You you are, I’m just gonna say is you’re a man of little words like you. You don’t talk a whole lot, but everything you say is very specific.

Speaker 3
Very and.

Tom Heath
Very intentional. I should say.

Michael Kramkowski
Yes. I’m very, You can see it in my face, though. Yeah.

Tom Heath
Yes. Never play poker with, like. That’s what I remember. This is this is Mike. When he’s happy is Mike when he said. But I guess the point being, it it kind of strikes me as, sort of counterintuitive that this festive environment. Right. This does not strike me as your personality. Like it more like matter of fact. So it was interesting to me that this was something you chose to do.

Michael Kramkowski
Yeah. So, I mean, you’re not the person who is, you know, leading the party. I’m the person behind the scenes kind of making sure the parties happen.

Tom Heath
Yeah.

Michael Kramkowski
So, yeah, it’s not about me partying. It’s about, you know, and it’s about my the customers coming in and being able to party and have a good time. So my job, I have a job, right? It’s a job that I do. And I take it very seriously. And, you know, it’s to make sure that our everybody’s safe and in has a good time.

Tom Heath
And so, and then I think we’re the, the thought process comes through and I’m like, okay, now it starts to make sense to me as I’ve seen what you’ve done with that block.

Michael Kramkowski

Tom Heath
Right. You started with, with the bar.

Michael Kramkowski
Yes.

Tom Heath
And it’s, it’s kind of morphed.

Michael Kramkowski
It is morphing right. Slowly. We’re working on it. But yeah we have more projects coming and we’re going to keep, you know, hopefully growing. It’s the next phase after we’re finished with the project that we are working on now, which is the Nathan’s Famous and The Blind Tiger.

Tom Heath
Okay. Well, I right. So first of all, the Nathan’s Famous, I thought that was like a spirit Halloween kind of joke because that sign went up and I was like, okay, there’s not going to be a Nathan. It feels like.

Michael Kramkowski
That to me a lot, too, because it’s taken so long.

Speaker 3
And a lot of problems.

Michael Kramkowski
And it’s getting and it’s been delayed and pushed back and, you know, and a lot of frustration that happens within construction, especially dealing with a very old building. So it’s been a lot of work of reworking that, that building.

Tom Heath
Okay. Is it is it like a historical designation or is it just an older.

Michael Kramkowski
So it’s that is not a historic building. It’s an historic district. Okay. So we have to manage it because it’s a historic district.

Tom Heath
Is there any sort of, updated timeline on Nathan?

Michael Kramkowski
So we are we are, right now looking for the beginning in November to the middle of November.

Tom Heath
Of this year.

Michael Kramkowski
Of this year.

Tom Heath
Oh, my gosh, that could be a good celebration for your 40th year.

Speaker 3
For sure. Yeah. Here we go. We’re done.

Tom Heath
We’re done. 40th and first at the same time. Absolutely. And what so this is I’m just assuming it’s, it’s a, it’s a is it a franchise of the.

Michael Kramkowski
So yes. We we I purchased the franchise to be able to do in the front part of the of that that building. So it’ll be Nathan’s Famous in the front. And then we have a kitchen that we built out. And then in the back will be, the blind tiger, which is like a speakeasy, has a small little shareable menu also that I’m working on too.

Tom Heath
Okay. So the a kitchen involved with that as well. Correct. Okay. So then and is this all connected on the inside or is it all going to be connected on the outside. Like how do you get because you’ve got diabetes, right. In the front piece of that. Correct. That’s the that’s.

Michael Kramkowski
Well the it will be it’s actually two doors south of that. Okay. So it’ll be it’s, it’s the those properties are is 6 to 8 North Fourth Avenue. Okay. Right across from the, the, streetcar right there.

Tom Heath
And are they connected like, are they connected through.

Michael Kramkowski
They will not be okay. So it will be connected only through a patio that will have access through it.

Tom Heath
Okay. Okay. So then it’s there’ll be separate entrances, on fourth Avenue, but there will be some kind of connection, and it’s blind tight. I don’t know, I that’s the name that’s new to me. So it’s blind tiger.

Michael Kramkowski
The blind tiger. Okay. So the blind tiger is, you know, history of you care often of the blind tiger, a blind pig, which were kind of like hidden speakeasy bars during prohibition time period. All right. So it’s, a concept that we had a while ago, but we never had it designed the way I truly wanted it designed.

Michael Kramkowski
And so when we were able to take over the property, a purchase, the property in 2020, I was actually able to then put together, a plan to actually implement the a true blind tiger. And that is it will be a door in the back, that you actually have to enter Nathan’s, and then there’ll be a door somewhere in the back for you to access the.

Tom Heath
All right. So, you know, there won’t be street access here at you. It really is a speakeasy. You have to go in and, you’re gonna have to fight as a door. You’re gonna have to find the door.

Michael Kramkowski
I mean, it’s not too hidden. I mean, it’s it’s there’s it’s not a big space, so it’s not like you’re, you’re going to get lost in there.

Tom Heath
Is you’re going to be like, secret codes and stuff, like knocks and things.

Michael Kramkowski
Maybe not. It’s more of, you know, we want people to come in and have a good time and just more of the environment that we’re creating than it is, the secret, the.

Tom Heath
Sacredness of it. Okay. Now, during this, there’s been a lot of construction going on, but but I bet these are still operating and still functional. You can still get to get in there. Yes, but the the, when, when everything is sort of officially opening, we’re still going to see the same sort of vibe. I bet.

Michael Kramkowski
The same. I mean, it is the one thing we’re going to finally get back at, I bet is part of that. That construction has been closing our kitchen. Yeah. And so the one thing we’re finally going to get back is our food back. And I bet so you haven’t had for a year and a half. So it’s been yeah.

Michael Kramkowski
It’s been a struggle of, you know, not having that available to our customers.

Tom Heath
I would imagine, and probably not the, the forum to go to the details. But I mean, that’s going to be challenging for you and a portion of your business is just sort of.

Michael Kramkowski
Oh yeah, that’s a huge impact of revenue that gets, you know, taken out. Okay. Sure.

Tom Heath
No, but that is that going to be opening up in hopefully in November.

Michael Kramkowski
And all this coming right along after that. And then the Blind Tiger will be right now our scheduled date is, the beginning of December, right. For streamer the week prior to stripper.

Tom Heath
It seems pretty appropriate that it might get a nice influx of people.

Michael Kramkowski
Exactly. Yeah.

Tom Heath
And then going forward, you know, I bet has really been focused on that focus, but there’s been a lot of celebration, especially Pride Month. We talked about that with these other concepts. Do you see other like are we going to see like a July 4th hot dog eating contest or something or.

Michael Kramkowski
Nathan’s like to keep that special for Coney Island. So that is definitely a Nathan’s Coney Island thing. So we probably won’t be doing a hot, hot dog eating contest, but we’ll, you know, sometimes always a challenging time for, you know, for 2000.

Tom Heath
So you can’t. Is that that’s your agreement is like, you.

Michael Kramkowski
Know, I don’t I mean, I think I have a rule with it. I, you know, I’ve never gone into details with them of whether or not we could do it or not. I just know how much work with talking to a lot of the people within the corporate office of how much work, something like that is to actually put together that is probably, a two months of most of the corporation just focusing on that.

Tom Heath
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So about that. Okay. So I think that that’s.

Speaker 3
That’s out for sure.

Tom Heath
Had a new call. Like I was going to get in there and definitely.

Michael Kramkowski
Have hot dogs. But it might not be it might not be to where you get to do that contest.

Tom Heath
All right. And then you could do a contest. You just have to buy all your hot dogs yourself.

Michael Kramkowski
There you go. On contest. There you.

Speaker 3
Go.

Tom Heath
I would, I would imagine if it was a self paid all you can eat. I can you feel free? Exactly. Okay. Make it more money. You you’re going to be.

Michael Kramkowski
Paying for them?

Tom Heath
For sure. There’s a Joey, chestnut that coming out that that whole thing. I’m never going to get into that, but the whole thing makes no sense. Like, the idea of it makes sense to me. But then the way it’s become a competition and all these creative, these food competitions, the way people creatively eat food now,

Michael Kramkowski
It’s crazy.

Tom Heath
It’s like. Anyway, I’m excited about Nathan’s, I’m a hot dog guy, and, there are some good hot dogs in Tucson. And I think this this is a a classic that really sort of adds to that sort of, you know, excuse the pun, but that flavor. Yes. Oh, hot dogs in Tucson and there’s no others.

Tom Heath
I mean, there’s no.

Michael Kramkowski
So a lot of, you know, with from what I understand, there was A1A while ago that was in the Park Place Mall. But, you know, a lot of, a lot of them closed up that they had during Covid. So they are kind of like in the rebuild of a franchise. Okay.

Tom Heath
So would be nice to have that. I’m excited about the tie in with the 40th and and are we going to see celebrations or are you.

Michael Kramkowski
Oh yeah I mean we are working on special shows. You know, we definitely want to work with some of, some of the charity organizations to to also make it to where we can, create some, you know, cohesive to work together with them so where they can also raise funds for charity at the same time of us just having throwing a party.

Michael Kramkowski
So it’s like we want to do it as a dual thing of not just celebrating events, but also celebrating, you know, and doing other stuff to get back to the community.

Tom Heath
So and then the footprint of what you’re doing. So I just want to make sure that I, I think I understand this. So about I mean, you’re not taking space away from it, but you’ve expand like you’re buying more properties and we are expanding.

Michael Kramkowski
And we will. So this is a separate property than where it is. But the plan is that to eventually expand, it’s that we have property that is to the north of us that is part of all the the building that it is currently in. So that was originally a Jocelyn building. It sold. Oh, I found out during this process that it’s an actual historic building.

Michael Kramkowski
So we’re going to have to struggle with how do we stay with, you know, keeping it into historic and be able to bring it to the building?

Tom Heath
Is is Jocelyn okay? Yeah. But the ones the the blind tiger and Nathan’s are not.

Michael Kramkowski
Are not.

Tom Heath
Okay, but they’re in the district, so I have to deal with it. Yes. The, the district requirements as well. Okay. Yes.

Michael Kramkowski
What you’re saying is that eventually to grow beats of having its own kitchen, its own other area, lounge area more and expand it that way into the patio also.

Tom Heath
So, okay, but for now, I mean, you’ll get you get to get your kitchen back in November. Correct. So those that have been used to the the menu at diabetes will get that back.

Michael Kramkowski
Finally get it back.

Tom Heath
They can then mosey on down and get a little snack. Yes. And then if you know the secret code and the knock.

Michael Kramkowski
You can get into the blind.

Tom Heath
Tiger blind side and have, a little smaller sample menu and. Yeah, it is it going to be like a, is there going to be a specialty like cocktails or so.

Michael Kramkowski
Yeah. So I mean what we, what we are doing is we are going to bring back just some classic, well-made cocktails. And then also do a modern twist on those type of cocktails.

Tom Heath
Nice, nice. And I, I wasn’t sure if I was going to bring this up, but I have to because I think it’s for context. I think back to when you first got into the restaurant business, and you had the mentorship of a, of a fairly new and young manager in the, in the restaurant world. I can’t remember his name.

Tom Heath
I think it was me.

Michael Kramkowski
I think it might have.

Tom Heath
And then as we were talking, I was like. And I was telling James that, I think I that you’re successful because of my tutelage. And it turns out that maybe you were successful in spite of my tuition.

Speaker 3
You know,

Michael Kramkowski
I mean, I learned a lot from you, Tom. And and the best thing also was, you know, I don’t know if I’ve. I know that you were kind of leaving Saint Louis, and I came out to Saint Louis when there we were.

Tom Heath
I forgot about Saint Louis.

Speaker 3
That’s all I got to talk about.

Michael Kramkowski
Says, you know, I learned a lot from you, from that walking into that and what you kind of given me into the inside of what I was about to deal with.

Tom Heath
And, I mean, it wasn’t like, I mean, I did some saying prove that. It’s not like.

Speaker 3
I’m not like a rat. It wasn’t. But yes.

Tom Heath
I learned a lot from you about what you walked.

Speaker 3
Into, am I that?

Tom Heath
Yeah, I oh my gosh, Saint Louis. Yeah. Well, that’s a whole different episode James. We gotta we gotta prep for that on a different day. Yeah. I’m excited to see the growth. It’s it’s nice. I’m. I’m kind of surprised it took us this long to have you on the show. Because you really have that that there’s a lot of impact on Fourth Avenue, in different areas and clearly sort of towards that north end.

Tom Heath
You are the driving force of, of sort of keeping that alive. There’s a lot around you. But but you certainly are that, that cohesiveness that, you know, 1985, you know, people have been coming there for a reason for a while.

Michael Kramkowski
Yes, for sure. I mean, Fourth Avenue has gone through its ups and downs and it’s, you know, it’s and how it’s, you know, it’s doing is, you know, it’s I think it struggles compared to a little bit of what’s happening in other parts of the city, because we don’t get the, the revenue, you know, the like the that other businesses are getting downtown.

Michael Kramkowski
And it’s.

Tom Heath
It’s not a part of the reason why.

Michael Kramkowski
But so we you know and so there’s a lot of, closing shops for some people. And so I think it’s important that if I have the ability and keep going and doing what we’re doing of growing and keeping Fourth Avenue alive and growing and growing in a manner that it’s not just what it was, you know, from in 1970 that it has to become relevant to the current age that we are in also.

Tom Heath
And I guess that, you know, I kind of those wrapping up, but I guess the question about Nathan’s Famous and the brand that’s, that’s, you know, Fourth Avenue is sort of has a more bohemian family owned or locally owned vibe. And this franchise, I want to say it sticks out, but it’s a little bit different than, than what’s definitely I mean.

Michael Kramkowski
It’s definitely something new will bring in a franchise into, Fourth Avenue. There’s, you know, there’s pretty much only one, the dairy, I mean, a dairy Queen.

Tom Heath
Yeah. Yeah. And and so and and they fit in and I think that’s.

Michael Kramkowski
But part of what we chose is we bought an old brand. Right. That’s been around, you know, since the early 1900s. Something that we thought would fit well for, the style of the avenue. This what would you know what it can do for street fair? So there’s a lot of, you know, and it’s also not, I think the way that the building and the business is all going to be designed, that it’s not about the franchise, it’s still locally owned and it’s still, you know, it’s something that adds to the avenue.

Tom Heath
I think that’s the key component. And I look at like other places too, where you can develop. And that’s a name brand that people aren’t not familiar with. Fourth Avenue will be familiar with that name if they’re coming to town, and that’s going to bring them down. Right. And then to have this, this sort of iconic brand, it seems very in my mind, not quite sure why, but it seems very natural that even though it’s a franchise that that leads into a local speakeasy.

Tom Heath
Right. It’s it’s almost it’s it’s very,

Michael Kramkowski
Yeah, I’m working with and working with Nathan’s to get that done and then being supported.

Tom Heath
I that was complex. Question is, is how do they feel about that?

Michael Kramkowski
They, they, they, you know, it. They’ve like the concept of everything I showed them and you know and what we are presenting. So it’s good for you know I think it’s good for what for fourth Avenue of what’s coming.

Tom Heath
So it could be a model of how you sort of integrate larger brands without losing your, your, your individual identity as a community. So that’s, that’s a really, really well done. Well, Mike, I appreciate it. We’re gonna have to have you back and, and talk more about some of the events that come up next year and things like that, because, once we get this chatterbox talking,

Speaker 3
I can’t get them to stop.

Tom Heath
For sure.

Michael Kramkowski
All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank.

Tom Heath
That was our interview with Mike Cram Koski here on Life Along the Streetcar. The, episode originally aired on Downtown Radio 99.1 FM, and we have the, audio and video podcast available on our website. Life along the streetcar.org. Appreciate you tuning in and listening. We want to thank James Portis, our executive producer, Amanda Burns, our associate producer.

Tom Heath
I’m Tom Heath, your host, and our background music has been provided by Ryan Hood. Until next time, stay curious to sun.