This week, we’re going to celebrate a 19th anniversary for the Surly Wench on Fourth Avenue. And we’re going to do that by jumping back to an interview we did in 2019 about their business, their history, and their fabulous monthly burlesque show.

Today is June 25th, my name is Tom Heath and you’re listening to “Life Along the Streetcar”.

Each and every Sunday our focus is on Social, Cultural and Economic impacts in Tucson’s Urban Core and we shed light on hidden gems everyone should know about. From A Mountain to the U of A and all stops in between. You get the inside track- right here on 99.1 FM, streaming on DowntownRadio.org- we’re also available on your iPhone or Android using our very own Downtown Radio app. Reach us by email contact@lifealongthestreetcar.org — interact with us on Facebook at LifeAlongTheStreetcar and follow us on Twitter @StreetcarLife

Transcript (Unedited)

Tom Heath

Good morning. It’s a beautiful, sunny old Pueblo and you’re listening to KT DT Tucson. Thank you for spending a part of your brunch hour with us on your downtown Tucson community. Sponsored all volunteer powered or rock and roll radio station. This week, we’re going to celebrate a 19th anniversary for the Surly Wench on Fourth Avenue. And we’re going to do that by jumping back to an interview we did in 2019 about their business, their history, and their fabulous monthly burlesque show. Today is June 25, 2023. My name is Tom Heath and you’re listening to life along the streetcar. Each and every Sunday, our focus is on social, cultural and economic impacts in Tucson’s urban core, and we shed light on hidden gems everyone should know about, from a mountain to the University of Arizona and all stops in between. You get the inside track right here on 99.1 FM, streaming on downtownradio.org, also available on your iPhone or Android by getting our very own Downtown Radio Tucson app. Of course,

Tom Heath

on the show you can interact with us on Facebook and Instagram or Life Along the Streetcar on those platforms. And for more information on our book past episodes, or just want to contact us, you can head to our website, lifealongthstreetcar.org. And of course, the podcasts are available on most of the platforms where you listen to your favorite podcasts. And we’re pretty cool. You can even just say, hey smart speaker, why don’t you play Life Along the Streetcar podcast? And every now and then it actually pops up. We’re going to focus a little bit on Fourth Avenue today. There is a big anniversary for Surley Wench. We’ll talk about that in a moment. But I’ve been getting a lot of questions about the huge development that’s happening on the south end where the Maloney’s pad used to be, that’s been in the works since 2016. 2017 been somewhat controversial because it is a very modern building there on the end of Fourth Avenue. And a lot of people are concerned about the impact that it will

Tom Heath

have to the local flavor of Fourth Avenue. But the project is underway, I believe it’s called Partners on Fourth is the firm behind all of that. But ultimately there’s going to be 300 plus apartment units, 325 ish apartment units, and there’s going to be retail and parking available as well as some nice amenities. I think there’s going to be a pool for the residents and that type of thing. Really large project and we’re in a housing crunch. There are people having trouble finding places to live and another 300 apartments, certainly especially in that urban core, that density there’s 1000 units or so that’s been added into the downtown area, 300 with this project alone. That will help alleviate some of the pressure, but certainly understand the concerns of those that are fans of the Fourth Avenue and the historic feel and flair that they’ve had and don’t want to lose that. According to the developers, the apartments, which I think they’re called Re on Fourth or Ari, I’m not sure if they

Tom Heath

say it out or not, but they’ve indicated a willingness to work with the Fourth Avenue coalition. They did not sign a community benefits agreement like the union on Fourth did, which is on the other end of Fourth Avenue, closer to 6th street there. They did not sign a community benefits agreement, but they did indicate a willingness to focus on local businesses and to use local artists and create a vibe the best that they can that fits in with that flair. But again, you’ve got different people on different sides of this issue, those that are looking for housing and those that are concerned about where some of these new employers are going to be putting their employees. Especially you could talk about Raytheon and Caterpillar and other places that might have interest in being downtown. They seem to be very much in favor of this and of course, more retail, right? As that bridge you get into downtown, we’re always talking about more retail needed in the downtown urban area. And then the historical

Tom Heath

Fourth Avenue coalition that have been very publicly in favor of development and very much wanting to see densification in infill projects, but concerned that it’s done in a way that doesn’t take away what we’ve come to know and love about Fourth Avenue. So that’s an ongoing debate, and I think a lot of that then ultimately has to come down to us, right? Who do we support from the businesses standpoint? Who do we want to see in those places? When they put a local business, then we have to go and drive our business to them, because if they’re going to invest in local businesses and a local business is going to take that leap to put retail on the bottom there Fourth Avenue, we have to go and support it. So keep that in mind. Completion date for this is June 2024. We’ll try to find someone on the development side or the historical Fourth Avenue side and talk more about that project as it gets nearer to completion, which is about a year away. But if you’re down there, the skeleton is a huge

Tom Heath

piece. Another huge piece of Fourth Avenue is the Surly Wench. They’re about to celebrate their 19th birthday, and that makes them the longest running business that’s been in that building which they occupy. And I didn’t know this so recently, but it was originally a Piggly Wiggly, so that’s kind of cool. And they have outlasted the timeline of the Piggly Wiggly. I remember it, although I was never there. I do remember being the night train club there. But now it’s the Surly Wench and it’s been in there for 19 years. And back in 2019, one of our earlier episodes, we got to talk with

Tom Heath

one of the owners there and kind of get a feel for the history and impact of Surley Wench on the block. Steph was also discussing their burlesque shows, which are a very important part of our community and serve a very interesting niche and not just entertainment, but also in positivity and really healthy mindsets. So we’re going to go back to that interview back in 2015. Steph Johnston, one of the owners of Surley Wench.

Stephanie Johnston

I am Stephanie Johnston. We’re at the Surley Wench Pub, where we have burlesque shows. I go by my stage name of Stepka von Snatch. I host a lot of the shows. Not all them, but the majority of them are.

Tom Heath

Are you an owner of Surley Wench?

Stephanie Johnston

I am an owner. I am an owner. And Jasmine, that you saw walk by.

Tom Heath

Okay. How long have you owned this place?

Stephanie Johnston

I’ve owned it from the beginning. So since 2004, we’re working on our 15th year.

Tom Heath

Holy smokes.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah.

Tom Heath

So you’ve seen some changes in this. I have 15 years. What was it like 15 years ago?

Stephanie Johnston

A lot quieter, a little more simple on the avenue. A lot less bars. No streetcar, but still fun.

Tom Heath

I talked with Dee Dee next door, and I got the history of this building. I guess it was a social club and other things.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah, since the 70s, it’s been a bar. Yeah. I’ve been digging up research in history on this building, too. A lot of stuff.

Tom Heath

So what got you into? Did you work here and buy? Oh, no, you started it.

Stephanie Johnston

So this was at the time I was working at three different bars when I bought it at the time. And I was working over a plush, and I was looking for a place to open, and I looked across street. This was another bar. And I noticed the lights were it was a Friday night, the lights were off, so, like, something’s up. So I came over and I looked at the mail slot. I’m like, they’re closed. So I figured out who the landlord was and kind of jumped on it real quick.

Tom Heath

Wow.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah.

Tom Heath

Wow. That’s a great story. And 15 years later so you got a big 15 year anniversary.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah. We’re going to do Something for Less is definitely going to be a part of it.

Tom Heath

Well, you got more than that. I mean, you got a full menu here. You’ve got full tables, a full bar.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah. DJs, bands, anything, really.

Tom Heath

So the point of the show today is about for last, but I want to make sure people know that this is a great place to come just to listen to music and other things.

Stephanie Johnston

Oh, sure. Okay, go on.

Tom Heath

So let me ask you, let’s get into the idea of burlesque.

Stephanie Johnston

Okay.

Tom Heath

Is there a way to describe what burlesque is?

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah, there’s burlesque. People mainly think of strip tease, but that’s not all. It’s people getting on stage. Very brave people getting on stage, kind of telling a story with one act, one song. And there’s strip t’s involved in it also. But, I mean, its roots go all the way back in America to about 1860. And when it was brought over here, kind of started in New York and moved its way over west. It was big, popular prohibition happened, kind of killed off everything because drip teas and drinking kind of go hand in hand.

Tom Heath

Understood.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah. And came back in the so by the seeing actual strip clubs and kind of getting nitty gritty. And it died again around the 90s, mid ninety s. You saw, like, a rebreathing rebirth of burlesque. The neo burlesque scene and into the 2000s has gotten real big.

Tom Heath

So why do you think it came back in the 90s?

Stephanie Johnston

Maybe I guess if you look at the culture back then, things were kind of, like, a little more scandalous. And look at the entertainment after the go into the 90s, maybe just people are rediscovering this. You give it a good 20 years of it dying out. That’s usually when things come back out, I think.

Tom Heath

And then you opened here in 2004, and at some point in there, you decided that you wanted to bring burlesque down to Fourth Avenue.

Stephanie Johnston

Yes. So we had a traveling trooper booked with us, and it was the first time I’ve seen burlesque before. When was this? Sometime in 2005. Okay. Yeah. And they came down. I think I booked them twice. But, man, I thought it was amazing. It was fun. It was just something that you’d never seen before. You’ve been to strip club, stuff like that. And that’s not whatever. This was cool. This is so entertaining. It was funny. It was great. And so I decided right then, after the second show, I’m like, man, I need to do this in Tucson. I need to do this at my bar. And just kind of on a night of drinking. I think it was a Valentine’s Day night. I think it kind of was born.

Tom Heath

Well, you’re seeing more of it around. It’s not just here. There’s other places that are doing this. They’re doing it margarines. I’ve seen it at Rialto. It’s gotten a foothold. But from what I’ve been told, it really didn’t have a foothold until you decided to start really featuring it here.

Stephanie Johnston

I just opened the door or something. I don’t know. Because we started off with just bands, and then we had DJs. I’m like, there’s got to be something else out there. And we found it. Yeah. Like I said, we just kind of opened the door and kind of like, I love it. I love that other places are doing it.

Tom Heath

And you love it so much that you’re a performer.

Stephanie Johnston

Well, I don’t perform. I host.

Tom Heath

Okay.

Stephanie Johnston

I guess that’s kind of performing. But I keep the clothes on.

Tom Heath

If you haven’t been it’s not completely nude, right? They take off clothing, but they keep.

Stephanie Johnston

Right now, big rule, no going completely nude. Keeping some bits covered up. But yeah, you won’t see complete nudity, you won’t see full topless. This is not what we do.

Tom Heath

But you talked about how in the 70s it went away and you saw this proliferation of more what people think of a strip club.

Stephanie Johnston

Yes.

Tom Heath

And this might be completely off of when I was doing some research. It seemed like strip clubs were sort of this sense of sexuality from the perspective of the audience. And burlesque is sort of an empowerment for the performer and it’s sort of an expression of sexuality from their perspective.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah, I’d say you’re right with that. Yes. You hit the nail on the head with that. Yeah. These women and men that go up and do this, you just see them. You see the power, the empowerment, the feeling. And most of them, once they get that taste of getting up there the first time, they want to do it over and over and over again.

Tom Heath

Now, there’s classes that they can take.

Stephanie Johnston

There are classes, I don’t offer any here, but there are classes around town.

Tom Heath

We’re in the middle of an interview from 2019 with Steph Johnson, one of the owners of the Surly Wench, the pub there on Fourth Avenue next to Pop Cycle, talking about at that time, 15 years in the building and on Fourth Avenue and also their Friday night, their monthly burlesque shows. And we’ll be back to finish up that interview in just a moment. But first I want to remind you that you’re listening to Life Along the Streetcar on Downtown Radio 99.1 FM and streaming on Downtownradio.org.

Speaker 5

Greetings and salutations, downtown Radio listeners. Paleo Dave, your unfrozen caveman DJ, here to spread the good word about the Scrambled Sunrise rock mix happening every weekday morning from seven to 09:00 A.m. Right here on Downtown radio from the earliest days of psych punk and new wave to 80s college rock, 90s alternative and the ongoing wave of 21st century indie rock. It’s all right here on the Scrambled Sunrise. So tune in via 99.1 FM if you’re in the greater downtown area or streaming worldwide via downtownradio.org.

Tom Heath

That’s paleo, Dave. Hope you check out his show starting tomorrow, Monday, seven to nine and every weekday. I always tell how cool it is that we’ve got over 250 episodes and I think he does that every few months because he’s doing it five days a week. Quite a prolific song generator for Downtown Radio. Well, if you’re just joining us, we’re reaching back to 2019 for an interview we did with the owner of Surley Wench, one of the co owners there named Steph Johnson. We wanted to highlight that because they’re approaching their 19th anniversary and we’re circling back to talk about their impact in history on Fourth Avenue as well as their burlesque performances and what they do within the community. And we’re going to finish up that interview with Steph Johnson.

Tom Heath

It’s almost for a therapy in a way that people can find out a lot about themselves by be willing to do this.

Stephanie Johnston

Oh, yeah. I’ve seen people completely change and discover themselves something that’s been in themselves. And they get up on stage, it’s like this whole different person confidence.

Tom Heath

You said the very beginning, it takes a lot of people, a lot of brave people.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah. That’s why I host. I can’t do it.

Tom Heath

And you host it’s. Steph. What’s your name?

Stephanie Johnston

Steph go. Von Snatch.

Tom Heath

Okay. The names of these performance, they are quite interesting.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah, you got to keep it. A lot of them are funny, but a lot of time, people come up with these names because they have these day jobs where they can’t use their real names. You got to go with this mask. You don’t want to get in trouble. But real creative names are and they.

Tom Heath

Tend to be funny but also somewhat telling, I think sometimes they come up with these creative names.

Stephanie Johnston

Had a superhero alter ego, and I.

Tom Heath

Didn’T know this until very recently, but the movie Gypsy, the musical Gypsy, was about a famous burlesque performer, gypsy Rose.

Stephanie Johnston

Yeah.

Tom Heath

So if you’ve seen that, then you.

Stephanie Johnston

Get I have many times.

Tom Heath

You get a sense of that in that, I think, raising sort of being in that environment. But the things that I learned here are some perceptions from maybe people like me that hadn’t seen burlesque.

Stephanie Johnston

Okay.

Tom Heath

They thought of it maybe more as more subversive.

Stephanie Johnston

It’s more about storytelling almost on stage. And that’s how I see it. It’s not just getting up there, taking some clothes off, getting some applause. You’re up there, you’re telling a story, or you’re opening some people’s eyes to something that may be controversial, whatever, or you’re just having a good time, being funny, whatever. There’s so many different aspects of it, really.

Tom Heath

It’s a very inclusive art form. There’s no judgment.

Stephanie Johnston

There’s no body type, no male, female, whatever. No body type, whatever. Anyone can get up there, do it, feel good about yourself. I started a Man Lesque show as well, and that’s just I want to see that guy next door get up there and shake his stuff and show him what they got. And not, like in a Chipmandale’s cheesy style that let me tell you, these guys get up there the first time, they’re nervous as all heck, and they want to come back over and over and over again and do it because it is it’s empowering it’s fun. You get the crowd screaming, oh, man. It’s the best feeling.

Tom Heath

How often do you have shows?

Stephanie Johnston

Every first Friday for Burlesque. Yeah, every first Friday, rain or shine. We’re doing them man less here and there every few months, so they’re a little harder to get together.

Tom Heath

So every first Friday at Survey Winch, you can come and get a taste of what the burlesque is. Yes. Is there cover charge fees, or is it depend on the show?

Stephanie Johnston

$10 for general admissions. 20 if you want to have a seat right in front of the stage with a table and such a little more comfortable. But let me tell you about these first Friday shows, too, is that they have a different producer for each show, which is a lot of places, have one troop and with the same people, most times some guests. But this one, since we have different producers for each show, we’re bringing people down from Phoenix. We’re having people from different troops coming in and performing and each show is different from each other. So that’s, I think, something that kind of makes us sits us apart a little. Okay? Yeah.

Tom Heath

So if there is a message about burlesque, if there is a message, and maybe there isn’t, but if there’s a message, you would like people that are afraid to either, they’re just not interested. They’re afraid to check it out.

Stephanie Johnston

There’s nothing to be scared of. Everyone’s just trying to have a good time. We’re trying to have fun. We’re trying to keep it positive. And we share the experience with everyone. One and it is you come to a show I have had people who are so scared to come to these shows. They’re just like, I don’t think it’s my type of thing. And they come and they’re like, oh man, I got to come to the next one. Because it is we keep it fun, we keep it light hearted, kind of for everyone over 21.

Stephanie Johnston

We have big performers that actually live in Tucson. We have Matt finish. He’s one best boy less. I think that’s cool. He performs down the street. We have Desiree De Moore, who moved to Tucson. She’s pretty big in the scene. We have Stormy Ley here, who’s performed all over the place. And Burlesque in Tucson is pretty big and it’s pretty important.

Tom Heath

It’s an outlet. It’s an artistic outlet.

Stephanie Johnston

It is.

Tom Heath

And I think just in the urban area in general, you see more artistic gathering because there’s more synergy of that. Have you noticed since you started hosting this back in five? Have you seen that explosion here in town?

Stephanie Johnston

Or is it yeah, actually, let’s see. There was a time where it felt like everyone just got on the burlesque. Everyone was trying to do it. And honestly, it’s not easy. I used to call say it was kind of like herding cats. And then you work with a lot of different personalities and stuff and some things work out, some things don’t. And it became real popular for a minute. It died down a little bit. But now I think we’re at a really good level right now where everyone’s working together and it’s super positive. And that’s how I wanted it to be from the beginning and it’s finally like that.

Tom Heath

Super positive. Of course, we recorded this in 2019 and then months later we were shut down for COVID. But they are making a strong comeback. It’s the surley winch pub. It’s on Fourth Avenue. Hope you can check it out. We’ll link to their website from our Facebook page. You can check out their schedule, events and keep tabs on their burlesque shows that are still happening. And my name is Tom Heath. You’re listening to life along the streetcar on downtown radio 99.1 FM and streaming on downtownradio.org you’re listening to Ktdt, Tucson.

Speaker 6

Arizona, 99.1 FM, downtown radio. I’m Brother Mark, host of a show called Radio Club Crawl that airs every Tuesday at 03:00 P.m.. We try to focus on most of the bands that are coming through Tucson, and we give you a tasty taste of their music. You want to check out what’s happening around Tucson? Check out Radio Club crawl. Tuesdays, 03:00 P.m., right here on Ktdt. Tucson, Arizona. 99.1 FM, downtown radio.

Tom Heath

Thank you very much. Enjoy your evening. Enjoy your evening. Bye bye. I like how that wraps up there. We have fabulous DJs here on downtown radio. They’re all volunteers. If you’ve listened to this show at any point, you know how much I am a huge fan of just about every show that’s out there. I’m sure there’s a few that I haven’t heard yet, but some of my favorites, you just heard Ted Prazelski with Radio Club Crawl. How cool is that? He has all of the music that’s going to be playing live in Tucson, and you can preview all of that on his shows on Tuesday and get a sense of what do you like, and then you go find where they’re playing live. There’s also shows Hope and Bo. Awesome. Put together the Arizona four one one, which is on Thursdays, I think, at five. I always hear the replay, though, I think on Saturdays. But Thursday at five, they play all Arizona music. And then they do something called the third set Triple Play. And they play three songs from an artist. And typically they have

Tom Heath

that artist as a guest on the show talking about their process and anything cool within their band or their music that’s happening. So those are just a couple of those that we have. You can check out the whole lineup on Downtownradio.org. There’s a schedule of events. Monday through Saturday we do Rock mix, and then on Sundays we open it up a little bit. Starts Sundays. Really mellow day. We start off with Mr. Nature and Little Leaf radio that flows into the art of easing at nine. And DJ Bank, the self described musical bum. He’s anything but a bum, people. He works his butt off for this show, but he has really taken the art of easing to a whole new level and hard to get off the couch. Once listened to DJ Bank, of course. We start at 11:00 every Sunday, and then after us it’s words and work with Ted Prazelski, talking with writers, members of the labor movement. Lots of really interesting topics here in Tucson. And at the top of the hour, we have Ty Logan with heavy mental, really, again,

Tom Heath

a show that helps to reduce the stigma of mental health and seeking services. And Ty is just honest and candid about it. Volunteers, people. I’m telling you, volunteers. And I bring up the volunteer component because I need you to go to the website downtownradio.org, check out the schedule, but then hit the donate button because we don’t have a huge funding source. We have some underwriters and we thank you and appreciate that. And if there are underwriters that you hear out there, please support them and let them know that their support of Downtown Radio is important to you. But also a donation, a small donation on a monthly basis can add to that budget that we have to work with. And since no one’s being paid, the money is going to the station, going to the quality of programming, increasing the equipment, doing all kinds of things that happen behind the scenes and I don’t even know about. So we would love to have ongoing support from you. A one time donation would be great, but ongoing

Tom Heath

support is really how we can budget things out. Well, this was episode, what, 252? I think maybe 253, I don’t know, 253. Somewhere in there. It’s over 250. Once you pass 250, who cares? And we’re going strong. Going strong. Lots of requests for shows next week. We actually have a gentleman named Chris Porter. He was referred by a listener. He’s doing a lot of really interesting work in the Neurodivergent, helping people with ADHD and other neurodivergent sort of processes. He’s helping coach them so they can be more productive with their time. And really interesting, really interesting gentleman and looking forward to my conversation with him. That’ll be next Sunday. And of course, if there’s something you want us to talk about, let us know. You can email us. Contact@lifelongthstreetcar.org. We have a contact button on our website, which is lifelongthstreetcar.org, and the best way is on Facebook or Instagram to tag us in something and tell us that you want to learn more or tell us that

Tom Heath

you know something about this topic and we should learn more because that’s what we do. We uncover hidden gems. And the show is really just an exploration of things about Tucson I don’t know. And there’s a lot about Tucson I don’t know. And I appreciate all of you continuing to present those to me. Again, congratulations to the Surly Wench and their 19th anniversary. Look forward to seeing some burlesque as they launch that here in each month. In the meantime, I’m going to leave you with a little music today, a little happy music from a sound from an album back in 2017. It’s from the Lovely Music Library and you’re listening to the song Burlesque. I hope you have a great week and tune in next Sunday for more life along the streetcar. Sam.